She's That Founder: Business Strategy and Time Management for Impactful Female Leaders

012 | Grit, Tenacity, and Getting Messy: What Makes an Entrepreneur Successful as Female Leaders with Dr. Ingrid Murra

• Dawn Andrews • Episode 12

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So you want to be an entrepreneur?  You have the idea, the drive, and the passion.  But what else do you need?  

Being an entrepreneur is not for the faint of heart. It takes grit, tenacity, and a willingness to get messy.

Which is exactly why I'm excited for you to meet my good woman, Dr. Ingrid Murra.  

While completing her orthodontic training at Harvard, she founded Two Front, a free modern platform for orthodontists to build hybrid practices from unused space at local dental offices. Dr. Murra is the 48th Latina entrepreneur in the US to receive more than $1 million in venture funding.  


In this episode, Dr. Ingrid Murra and I discuss:

  • How passion, purpose, and seeing a massive problem in the orthodontics industry drove her to become a newbie tech entrepreneur.
  •  Why you need to be brave, knock on doors, and pitch before everything is perfect -- it never is.
  • Finding venture funding as a female founder of color with no experience in tech and no support system. 
  • Dr. Murra shares how the school doesn't prepare you for entrepreneurship, that every day is war when you're starting your own thing, and saying no to almost everything is a good muscle to flex. 
  • How to be in the right kind of “messy” when it comes to business. Making room for mistakes in business and how to overcome it 

This episode at a glance:

[00:06:35] That's what made me want to become an orthodontist. I realized how transformative it could be to a person to have the confidence, to just smile and, you know, not have to restrict yourself.
[00:14:46] I knew that in this world, the way it exists, I could not practice orthodontics the way it's practiced. And that was enough to drive me to just do whatever it took.
[00:18:15] There's no such thing as packaged and perfect before you start going, and I love that you were bold and brave and just kept test-driving your options to see what was gonna work.
[00:27:01]There's no fun in "failing every single day," you know, it's learning, and it's one step in the right direction, it's one more way that you realize it's not gonna work
[00:30:13] Find the people who are a couple of steps behind you and a simple couple steps ahead of you (so that you can always help people, learn directly from when you have just learned, and then learn from people who have just done what you need to do.)  

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My Good Woman
Ep. 12 | Grit, Tenacity, and Getting Messy: What Makes an Entrepreneur Successful

Dawn Andrews [00:00:01]

Hello, friends. Welcome to my good woman, the podcast for new and future female leaders. I'm your host, Dawn Andrews, a happily married hockey mom and the founder and CEO of Free Range thinking business strategy consulting. Grab a seat at the table with me each week for candid conversations with culture shifting, glass ceiling, busting, trailblazing women, and leading impactful enterprises.

We discuss what makes them tick, how they get it all done, and actionable strategies to help you lead with confidence and grow the visibility, reach, and revenue of your business. We're classy ladies, but we don't bleep the swear words. Listener discretion is advised.

Dawn Andrews [00:01:03]

So you want to be an entrepreneur? You have the idea, the drive, and the passion. But what else do you need? Being an entrepreneur is not for the faint of heart. It takes grit. Tenacity. And a willingness to get messy. You may even need to find venture capital funding to realize your dreams. And in 2020, only 2.3% of all available venture capital funds. Went to female-owned businesses, and a tiny fraction of that went to female founders of color. Which is exactly why I'm excited for you to meet my good woman, Dr. Ingrid Murra. 

Dr. Murra is a Harvard-trained orthodontist and a mission-driven entrepreneurial leader, passionate about democratizing access to confidence and entrepreneurial success for healthcare providers. While completing her orthodontic training, she founded Two Front. A free modern platform for orthodontists to build hybrid practices from unused space at local dental offices. 

Dr. Murra is the 48th Latina entrepreneur in the US to receive more than $1 million in venture funding. And her startup, Two Front, is backed by leaders in the healthcare industry, such as Tom Lee, the founder of one medical, and Fred Joyal, founder of 1-800-DENTIST. Along with craft ventures, a top venture firm has backed companies, including Airbnb, Uber, Tesla, and Instacart. 

Dawn Andrews [00:02:28]

In this episode, Dr. Murra and I discuss how passion purpose, and seeing a massive problem in the orthodontics industry drove her to become a newbie tech entrepreneur, why you need to be brave, knock on doors, and pitch before everything is perfect because it never is. 

Finding venture funding as a female founder of color with no experience in tech and no support system. And Dr. Murra shares how school doesn't prepare you for entrepreneurship, that every day is war when you're starting your own thing, and saying no to almost everything is a good muscle to flex. Enjoy my inspiring conversation with my good woman, Dr. Ingrid Murra. 

Dawn Andrews [00:03:06]

 Welcome to the podcast, Dr. Ingrid Murra. It is lovely to meet you.

Ingrid Murra [00:03:11]

 Likewise. Thank you for having me.

Dawn Andrews [00:03:13]

 I'm so excited about this conversation. I was going through all of the materials that you provided me, and let me be honest. We stalked you a little bit on social media so that I could get to know you a little bit better. And I just found myself very inspired and looking forward to asking you all kinds of questions about Two Front and about your journey to be here. So since you are still somewhat new to me, and you're obviously new to my listeners, tell me a little bit about Two Front.

Ingrid Murra [00:03:38]

Yeah. Well, first of all, thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to be here. Two Front, we have basically Uberized the orthodontic practice. We empower orthodontists to run virtual practices from local dental offices. And when I say virtual, I should say hybrid. So orthodontists go into dental offices near them once a month, and through our free platform, they have the ability to offer patients the kind of experience they're looking for. Streamlined end-to-end patient experience, where they can get that modern-day, easy scheduling, easy rescheduling, virtual care, and great payment plans all through our platform, but with orthodontist-led care, instead of having to straighten their teeth through the mail.

Dawn Andrews [00:04:17]

That's incredible to be able to marry up what makes it a little bit easier for the orthodontist, what makes it a little bit easier for the patients, and to still be able to provide that patient-doctor connection, not just, oh, I got my brown package in the mail. And maybe it works, or maybe it doesn't quite work, but it's pretty revolutionary what you've done. Did you start out in orthodontia and then formulate this idea? Did you come out of tech? Tell me a little bit about your background prior to Two Front.

Ingrid Murra [00:04:42]

 Oh, yeah, for sure. I was not in tech at all. I was an orthodontist. And I basically realized in residency my very first year it was 2015, and that was the year that I was like, you know, I just spent the past 20 years of my life becoming an orthodontist, working towards getting to this place. And that very same year is the year that the first mail-order aligner company launched. That was a time that I at first didn't really know orthodontics. And I was like, oh my God, are we about to be replaced? Am I not needed anymore? Six months into residency, I basically saw the problem. Okay, so now I realize you need an orthodontist to move your teeth.

Ingrid Murra [00:05:18]

 This is very much a medical procedure that, if you don't do it right, it is central to your face. It can cause you bite problems. It can cause you to break your teeth. It can cause TMJ issues and headaches. It can literally ruin your life. Not to be dramatic, but if you have bite problems or TMJ or headaches, that can ruin your life, and people don't realize that you need an orthodontist. 

Ingrid Murra [00:05:39]

It's basically lack of regulation and lack of awareness around how orthodontics works, where people were saying, okay, now that we have clear aligners instead of braces, this is easy, tech does it, A.I. does it. That's not the case. It's just a tool. It's a plastic tool. Just like metal braces are a tool used to straighten teeth. And so I saw the problem. And that's when I realized we need a better way of doing things.

Dawn Andrews [00:06:03] 

 It's so fascinating. First of all, did you wear braces yourself?

Ingrid Murra [00:06:06]

Oh, yeah. Yeah. I went through four years of braces.

Dawn Andrews [00:06:09]

 Six years over here, six years. 

Ingrid Murra [00:06:11]

So you had a phase one for sure.

Dawn Andrews [00:06:13]

Oh, yeah. Like from the minute there was some sort of intervention to be had, my dentist was like," girl, you're gonna need a little bit of work." This is from seventh grade all the way through. I got my braces off the day before my senior pictures for high school. 

Ingrid Murra [00:06:27]

Wow. And now you have a beautiful smile.

Dawn Andrews [00:06:29]

Thank you. So yes, you wore them as well for four years, you said. 

Ingrid Murra [00:06:32]

 Yeah, four years. And I mean, that's what made me want to become an orthodontist. I realized how transformative it can be to a person to have confidence, just to smile, and not have to restrict yourself. Before I had braces, as this little eight-year-old, I was so insecure about my smile to the point that I was looking in the mirror as a little kid. I was like, how do I smile without showing off my teeth? 

Dawn Andrews [00:06:55]

 Oh, yeah. 

Ingrid Murra [00:06:56]

That's why I really believe in the power of orthodontics. 

Dawn Andrews [00:06:59] 

 When did you have your braces removed? How old were you then? 12, 13? 

Ingrid Murra [00:07:03]

Around seventh or eighth grade. Yep. 

Dawn Andrews [00:07:05]

 So middle school is such an awkward time anyway, an awkward time for everybody. Nobody gets out of that unscathed. And I think it's especially an awkward time for girls. To have a little bit of a, it's like a superhero cape to have gone through the orthodontic process and to start in middle school from that place. Imagine what it might have been like if you were still that eight-year-old self, trying to protect that smile going through that phase of development. That would have been a really tough time, I imagine. 

Ingrid Murra [00:07:30]

 Yeah, it's not an easy time for kids, And so having the ability, having the privilege of going to the orthodontist is such a luxury because it's your smile to the center of your face.

Dawn Andrews [00:07:41]

Yes. We spent the last several years apart from each other, with only the top third of ourselves visible to most people. So not only is it the center of your face, but it's the center of your zoom box, and it tells people so much about how you're feeling and where your head is at, at any given moment. It really makes a difference. So I appreciate so much that this is the area of life and your energy that you've chosen to focus on. Some people, when their kids wanna be police officers, wanna be fire people. They wanna work in a hospital. Like they have a calling and feel like that's the thing that they wanna do. And they seem to hold onto that and follow that all the way through their schooling and into their career life. Was orthodontics like that for you? 

Ingrid Murra [00:08:19]

I knew that I wanted to be successful and independent and change people's lives. Feel purpose with what I'm doing. I knew that as a kid, and I realized when I got it, when I got my own treatment, I was like, this is what I can do to fulfill all those things. So I did stick to it from the beginning. I definitely explored other things in the healthcare industry. I was like, oh, but what about what if I can help people doing this or help people doing that? And ultimately, I just came back to orthodontics because I just knew my own experience and how much you can help people. 

Dawn Andrews [00:08:50] 

So, not to be punny, but it really aligned with who you were as a person. 

Ingrid Murra [00:08:55] 

 Exactly.

Ingrid Murra [00:08:56]

 So where do you think that drive? You said you wanted to be successful. You wanted to be independent. You wanted to be connected to purpose. Where do you think that began for you? I think honestly, seeing my parents. Uh, They moved here in their twenties from El Salvador, total American dream parents, put each other through med school, really, truly just worked their way up and built a beautiful life. I'm the oldest of five of us, five girls.

Dawn Andrews [00:09:19]

 Five girls. Woohoo. 

Ingrid Murra [00:09:21]

Yeah. So I saw what they went through, and I was inspired by them, and I was like, I wanna do what they do. I want to. I wanna live a very purposeful life and work hard and make a difference and make an impact. And I heard their stories about how they're making an impact, you know, they'd come back, and they'd tell us about their patient stories. That's what I wanna do. I wanna help people. 

Dawn Andrews [00:09:43] 

What area of medicine are your parents? 

Ingrid Murra [00:09:45]

 Um, my dad's a neurologist, and my mom's a primary care physician. 

Dawn Andrews [00:09:49] 

 Oh, my goodness. And when you said they came here from El Salvador, came here to where? Here in the United States. But Where did you guys land? Where did you grow up? 

Ingrid Murra [00:09:57]

Yeah. I grew up in New Orleans. So they bounced around a little bit, like kind of going through med school and residencies and post fellowships and all that. So I was born in Kentucky, in Louisville. But I grew up in New Orleans, and then now my parents are in Houston. 

Dawn Andrews [00:10:11]

That's extraordinary. What was that like growing up in a house of five women, five young women? 

Ingrid Murra [00:10:18] 

As you can imagine, madness. Literally running into each other's rooms every morning. Like, did you take my shirt outta my closet? Like Now, I have four built-in best friends. You know, I, I find that throughout your life, friendships are such an interesting thing. Some of them you're gonna have forever, even though, like for periods of your life, it doesn't really make sense to be in touch all the time. But sisters, no matter what, are always there. No matter what, your sisters are your sisters, doesn't matter what life stage you're in. And I think I feel super blessed to have that. In summary, while I was young, total madness, and then after 18, it's the best thing that's ever happened to all of us. 

Dawn Andrews [00:10:55]

 How do you think growing up with five sisters and having built-in best friends with your five sisters has impacted either belief in yourself or the path that you've been on building this business? Where have they impacted you? 

Ingrid Murra [00:11:09]

 That's a good question. The belief in myself part I've never not believed in myself, and maybe that's because I was surrounded by women. And, you know, I, I get asked a lot around like what it's like to build a business when less than 2.5% of venture capital funding goes to women and especially Latin-American women. I was the 48th Latin American woman to receive over a million dollars of venture capital funding. That is wild. Like, to me, that's wild. I'm like, why? I don't understand it. In the United States, Latin Americans are the number one, most entrepreneurial subsection of people by race. Why are we like this? So, I've never really understood it. And maybe it's because I did grow up in a household of powerful women. 

Dawn Andrews [00:11:51]

 You mentioned having five sisters and that your mom is also a doctor. So who has she been to you and your journey? As an orthodontist, as a business owner, as a sister, as a woman? 

Ingrid Murra [00:12:01]  

My mom, I think, is just the ultimate hero. She moved here to the United States from El Salvador. Learned English while in med school, had three kids before she was 30, and raised a family in the United States without having support. And now, when my friends are starting to have young kids, realizing really what that means while having a full-time job without paid time off because you're in residency. So there is no time off and then continuing to learn the culture and put us through school and give us everything that we wanted. She's just a total hero. 

Dawn Andrews [00:12:40] 

So what's your relationship like with her now? Do you guys talk frequently? Is she providing advice or moral support? Who is she for you now? 

Ingrid Murra [00:12:47] 

She's definitely moral support. We talk every couple of days I would say. 

Dawn Andrews [00:12:51]  

That's so great. I love it. Shout out to your mom. She raised an amazing daughter. And I imagine four other amazing daughters, if you're any indication, it's wonderful. 

Ingrid Murra [00:12:59]

 Thank you. I appreciate that. 

Dawn Andrews [00:13:01]

It's such a blessing, it really is, because what I have found for myself and with my clients, I'm the oldest of two, four extended. And sometimes I think being the oldest. There's a certain level of confidence that maybe just comes cause you're the first one through the door. But I do find with my clients that if you haven't been surrounded by female role models, especially in those formative times, you get the day-to-day of it with your mother being a great example for you, with your sisters being great examples for you. In the absence of that, it is a really tough wall to climb to be able to break through when especially in venture capital. There are lots of small business owners that are women, but to be able to break through and get funding from a really male-dominated industry is pretty extraordinary. And to your point, we talked in our previous conversation about being the 48th Latina woman to be able to receive over a million dollars in venture capital. I'm so happy for you. I am so frustrated that's the statistic, 

Dawn Andrews [00:14:01]

 When you were pursuing your venture capital funding, did you have resources, people, or organizations that really stepped up to help you with that process? Or did you just start banging on doors yourself? Like what did it look like to go from I have this idea to your first funding? 

Ingrid Murra [00:14:18]

Yeah, honestly, it was really just banging on doors. I had no idea what I was doing. Orthodontists just know what we know. It's pretty wild, actually. Like you can graduate when you're 30 and just know how to move teeth. I'm not exaggerating. You are learning how to like to open up a savings account and pay your taxes. You're literally like a grown-up child in a way. And all I knew was that there was a massive, massive, massive problem that I wanted to solve. Like, I knew that this world, the way it exists, I could not practice orthodontics the way it's practiced. And that was enough to drive me to just do whatever it took. I just learned to kind of trailblaze It caused fires wherever I went, I was constantly messing up and asking the wrong questions and making myself look stupid, but I just did it. the people who realize that you're determined and you're gonna do whatever it takes.

Ingrid Murra [00:15:11]

 The people who believe in you, they're gonna give you the funding, and everyone else who expects you to be like a buttoned-up, wall street, six foot, male, that's not the kind of person who's gonna invest in you. And that's fine. You want people who are going to believe in you as a human to look past what you look like and not expect you to look a certain way. I definitely had conversations where people were like, if you don't know where your projections are gonna be in five years, if you don't know like your uses of capital, if you don't know your hiring strategy, your go-to-market blah, blah. Like you should probably just open up a really good orthodontic practice. Okay, see you later. 

Dawn Andrews [00:15:46]

Who told you that? Is it the potential funders that you were meeting with? 

Ingrid Murra [00:15:50]

 Yeah. So I basically was just knocking on doors, going to health tech conferences, trying just to meet as many people as I could meet. I was lucky enough to be practicing in New York, living in New York. So I was an orthodontist by day, trying to become an entrepreneur by the evening, like Building my network, and eventually like met someone who introduced me to the right investor. Got my first check, and your first check was the hardest by far. Then I got my second and third, and fourth, and I built a business that I realized had the right or wrong go-to-market strategy and had to pivot again and again until we landed on this business model. So I think to circle back to your original question, there was no support system. It was just knocking on doors.

Dawn Andrews [00:16:34] 

 If you had to look back or when you look back on that first deck, that first conversation for what this business was, what do you remember about it?

Ingrid Murra [00:16:43]

 I wish I had it. It's honestly worth digging up. I had friends who were consultants at the time in New York. And I was like, I know you guys are used to making decks. What do you think? And they're like. You got a lot of work to do. But it took me probably three to four months of just iterating and iterating and showing smart people and making it's all about making a story sound cohesive and like you have a plan. 

So I finally learned that. I think the biggest thing is I was, I'm just so deep in knowledge in terms of why the mail order aligner companies are not going to work, why they actually harm people, and why general dentists- cause I'm a general dentist before I'm an orthodontist - so why the general dentist should not be straightening teeth. That's kind of what I was approaching in as is like, here's all the information that you should know. I didn't realize initially is investors don't care, you know, that might be good for marketing campaigns, but like investors wanna know how am I gonna make the money.

Dawn Andrews [00:17:39]

 Yeah. 

Ingrid Murra [00:17:39]

I really had a hard shift going about it from like really ethical, this is what we're gonna do, this is a problem we're gonna solve, here's all the lives, we're gonna change to money. Like, how are we gonna make investors money? How are you going to trust me with your money so that I can ten times your money? 

Dawn Andrews [00:17:54]

 Okay. Here's what I appreciate so much about your story so far, you just get messy. 

Ingrid Murra [00:17:59]

 Yeah. So messy.

Dawn Andrews [00:18:00]

 And you do it over and over again. I have conversations with women who are very concerned about having it all buttoned up and perfect before they test drive it. And even once you've had your rounds of fundraising, you know, you've received your checks. You mentioned having to rethink the business model and pivot yet again. There's no such thing as packaged and perfect before you start going, and I love that you were bold and brave and just kept test-driving your options to see what was gonna work. It sounds like that was also what generated the support that you did find along the way. 

Ingrid Murra [00:18:33]

Yeah. I'll tell you even now, like now, I'm so lucky enough to be at a point where we just, six months ago, raised three and a half million of venture capital funding. I have an incredible team, which it took me so long to learn how to hire, but now we have ten amazing people where we're looking to take our business from 10 clinics to a hundred here in Southern California.

I think half of what I'm doing is just like, forgetting the process. It's not gonna be perfect. We don't have to have lists perfectly segmented. Things are gonna break. It's the whole, it's the 80% rule, like ship it once you're 80% there. I'm more of 50% and like things are going to break. We're not a buttoned-up company; this is not Apple. There's no playbook. If you want a playbook, go to school, get promoted, or work in a big corporation. But early stage startup, there literally is no playbook. You are just testing and testing and shipping as quickly as you can. 

Dawn Andrews [00:19:25]  

Looking back, do you feel that you were entrepreneurial all along? Or is this something that was sparked as a result of seeing that problem and wanting to solve it? 

Ingrid Murra [00:19:33]

I was definitely creative, and I didn't realize that it was entrepreneurial. I always had ideas, and I wanted to carry out my ideas. But for me, school wasn't natural. I'm not someone who is stem oh, just naturally did well in chemistry or calculus. I had to work three times harder than everyone else. I was definitely more of like the left side of the brain. Until residency, I just worked nonstop. But along the way, I always had ideas of what if we could do this, what if we could do that? And Then it took being able to have the free time, to not constantly be working towards becoming an orthodontist, to put that into a business. 

Dawn Andrews [00:20:11]

 I'm curious what the transition was, or if there was a moment or series of moments when you realized; yes, there's a problem, but then you realized. I'm gonna be the one to step into that space and solve the problem. Because there's a big difference between seeing something wrong, seeing a possibility, seeing an opportunity, and then getting the fire, the passion, and the hutzpah to go after it and do it. Do you recall that transitional time? Can you describe it?

Ingrid Murra [00:20:41]

Oh yeah, okay. So it started with It was a slow journey towards something doesn't feel right. When I was in dental school, I was like, when are we gonna learn how to move teeth using Invisalign? I got into residency, and I was like, maybe it's easier than we think.

Ingrid Murra [00:20:55] 

And then basically six months into residency is when I truly learned that it takes a lot of knowledge actually to learn how to move teeth. It was my first epiphany, and it basically was a major moment where I was like, the world isn't right. A major moment where I said people are being tricked. I came from a family of small business owners, so I had no idea what it was like. I would walk into a Sephora and be like, oh yeah, everything's anti-aging. This is great. I'm gonna stay young forever. Not really realizing then marketing can be used. Or venture capital dollars can be used towards marketing beautiful campaigns instead of R and D essentially. That was my first real breakthrough of whoa, the world is backward. 

Dawn Andrews [00:21:35]

 The matrix moment.

Ingrid Murra [00:21:36]

Totally. I normally sleep like a bear. I'm someone who, like, it's super hard for me to wake up in the morning cause I just sleep so rock solid. But then this moment when I realized all this and I was sitting here still studying 16-hour days while seeing my friends get damaged by these mail-order aligner companies, I just stopped sleeping.

I think I went through a six-month period. Where I was only sleeping three hours a night, and I just kept thinking, what can I do? What can I do? What can I do? I started researching how you build a business. How do you build a big business? How do you change the world? That was 2016, the very end of my first year of residency. It took me a couple of years to, like, truly to your point of wanting things to be buttoned up. I was a student. I was used to like, okay, for me to get my A, here's what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna go to class. I'm gonna record my lectures, and I'm gonna listen to them.

Ingrid Murra [00:22:27]

I'm gonna be prepared one week ahead. I had school mastered. I knew how to make the A. That is not possible with building a business. And so I thought I could. I started, I was at Harvard dental for my ortho residency. I tried to get my dual degree at Harvard business school. And then they told me this doesn't exist. This only exists for med students. And I was like, med dental. Why are you discriminating against dental? I ended up just auditing a bunch of classes, reading a bunch of external books on venture capital, and listening to podcasts, getting the confidence to say, you know what, maybe I can do this. Maybe I can be the person who changes this industry, and the rest is history. It was all from 2015 to 2018. 

Dawn Andrews: [00:23:08]

Isn't that incredible? So how long, how long is Two Front in its current iteration with pivots, etc.? How long has it been in existence?

Ingrid Murra [00:23:16]

 So We first incorporated in the middle of 2019 and raised our first round of 1.2 million of venture capital funding at the end of 2019. The current iteration is our third iteration. We went through three pivots of business models. First, we were gonna start a conglomerate dental organization, just clinics all over the country.

Tom Lee, the founder of One Medical, was our very first angel investor. I was gonna follow his trajectory of like brick and mortar, beautiful patient experience, top doctors, et cetera, realized capital expenditures and customer acquisition costs were insanely high, especially at COVID. So we pivoted on that. 

I couldn't imagine signing a 10-year contract ahead of a looming epidemic. We pivoted to another business model around sending orthodontists to people's homes. As of last year, Last April, we launched this business model of Uber meets Airbnb, connecting orthodontists to local dental offices to serve their patients. We've now been around for almost a year and a half. 

Dawn Andrews [00:24:16]

 It's so fantastic. And I hope for everybody listening to this story that some of the things that they're taking away is to get messy and let the market tell you what's working or what's not working. If people's eyes are glazing over, if they're saying no, if they can't see it, sometimes it's a crisis of communication for the founder to be able to actually to express the vision and the ideas clearly. But oftentimes, whatever your idea is, you're almost there, but you're not quite on the dot yet. And I also hope that people are taking away the courage to be able to walk away from those ideas and pivot and continue refining and finding their way. Because the model that you have now and the way that I've read about it and that you've shared it seems really ingenious. 

Dawn Andrews [00:24:57]

And I keep thinking about the Airbnb founders' stories of them sleeping in somebody's front room, and then wondering how they could make money off of that, and then renting out their living room, and everything has grown from there. I think there's so much promise with what it is you're doing, and I'm very glad that venture capitalists have had the opportunity to help shape you as a founder in the no's that you've received, but also now have the opportunity to support you and invest in you as you continue to grow and pivot the business. It's really exciting. How many frogs did you kiss before you got to the ones that signed the checks and said yes. Do you have an idea of how many no's came before the first yes? 

Ingrid Murra [00:25:33] 

Oh, my goodness. This is just like the deck question. This is something where eventually, when I have the time, I'll go back to my emails, and I'll figure it out. But so many, it was like If you count every single person I met at conferences and people I DMed cold on LinkedIn to take them out for coffee and quote-unquote, "pick their brain." so many rejections. But as soon as you get your first one, you just forget about them all. 

Dawn Andrews [00:25:56] 

What was the duration of time, like from 2015, 2016 to 2018? So three years of going at it and not receiving the first check. Did I get that window right? 

Ingrid Murra [00:26:06]

 So from 2015 to 2018, I was still on orthodontic residency 14-hour days of being in actual school. Basically, I graduated, and I started working as an orthodontist summer of 2018. I worked for about a year, full-time, six days a week, trying to self-fund the business. April 2019, we incorporated, and September 2019 was our first check. So I would say between the incorporation date and the check date was all the time of figuring out the deck, the financial model, investors, and the network. I'm bad at math, whatever that time period was.

Dawn Andrews [00:26:38]  

Yeah. So how did you sustain yourself? Was it disheartening to receive the nos that you were getting? How did you manage your mindset during that time? 

Ingrid Murra [00:26:46] 

Of course, it was beyond disheartening. Everything is like every day is war. I think that's one thing in entrepreneurship. I have some friends that are thinking about starting a business. And I think like my biggest advice is like, you have to really be in love with the problem that you're solving. 

There's no fun in, quote-unquote, "failing every single day," you know, it's learning, and it's one step in the right direction, it's one more way that you realize it's not gonna work. But for things to go totally smoothly all the time, it's just not gonna happen. I would say there are wins buried between all the failures, but primarily you're like just getting through war. 

It's a daily mentality of just being one step closer to solving the problem. We're two steps closer to solving the problem. And then also just celebrating the wins is something that I'm really, really mindful of. The last thing is I've made a strict rule with myself where I don't work Friday, evenings, or all day on Saturday. No slack messages, no emails, nothing. It's like a true vacation, away from my job. 

Dawn Andrews [00:27:48]

 What does celebrating look like for you since celebrating is important to you?

Ingrid Murra [00:27:51] 

Oh, that's a good question. It's generally around meals, really good meals. I'm like, okay, let's try a great restaurant in LA or traveling, whether it's like New restaurants or like let's book a trip and like find an Airbnb and just exciting stuff like that. 

Dawn Andrews [00:28:09]

 So we're both in LA what's on that restaurant list? Like, help a sister out. I need to know where to go to celebrate. 

Ingrid Murra [00:28:16]

 Oh, yeah. Tonight I'm going to a restaurant called kin. K I N N. My secret is Infatuation. I don't know how big of a secret it is, but it is the best restaurant list ever. Because I think they don't accept payments. They don't accept any sort of endorsements, like eater or any of the rest of them. So you can really trust their lists, and they have them sorted by really quirky titles, like where to go with their girlfriends, where to go when you wanna get a quick dinner with someone at six o'clock and be out by eight. It's just really funny, targeted ways of like finding really good restaurants 

Dawn Andrews [00:28:53]

 I love that. You know, I'm in silver lake, so there's Eater and the Eastsider and things like that, that I use. But, the reason I was asking, too, is that I learned that you are a recent transplant to Los Angeles. 

Ingrid Murra [00:29:03]

 Yeah.

Dawn Andrews [00:29:04]

 So how has it been for you as a business owner? Are you finding community and other women in business that you can mastermind with a little bit, trade stories, advice, and resources? What are you finding in that regard? 

Ingrid Murra [00:29:17] 

I think New York definitely has a stronger tech scene. And I found there were like pockets of meetups and newsletters and like just a lot of resources for tech that I was able to figure out okay, Charlie O'Donnell’s newsletter, he's gonna tell us where all the events are every week in New York. That for some reason, I haven't found as much here. I have found individuals that are really inspiring. We definitely gravitate towards each other, the trade stories, and war stories. But it's not as big of a community as it is in New York, for sure.

Dawn Andrews [00:29:48]

 I have a couple of resources that I'll make sure I get to you after we're done. Tell me if you agree or disagree, but I do feel like it's important to have other female founders to be able to relate to and talk to whether you're pursuing something in a similar industry or whether you're pursuing something in a different industry. Being a founder is a lonely place to sit. 

Ingrid Murra [00:30:05]

 Yep. 100%. I couldn't agree more. You need to find people to trade war stories with. Someone told me to find the people who are a couple of steps behind me and a simple couple of steps ahead of me so that I can always help people, learn directly from when I have just learned, and then learn from people who have just done what you need to do. 

Dawn Andrews [00:30:26]

I think about that. My kids play hockey. And so they enjoyed when they were younger being the better players on a team and being the teachers. And sometimes, like my older son loved to coach. He wasn't asked to coach, but he really enjoyed being a coach on the team. And now they're finding that they really like it when they're playing with players who are more skilled than they are because they can see really quickly how much they've improved over time and, in a more condensed period of time. So I love that you're looking for women that are ahead and behind to be able to lift people up and to be able to be lifted up by people. 

Ingrid Murra [00:31:02]

 Yeah, 100%. I would appreciate those resources.

Dawn Andrews [00:31:05]

You got it, they're covered. So are you still an orthodontist by day and a founder by night, or is it all, is your whole life in the founder space now? 

Ingrid Murra: [00:31:14]

 My whole life is the founder's space. It's 24/7. It's like really, truly 24/7.

Dawn Andrews [00:31:20]

What's a day in the life look like with the exception of course of Friday evening all the way through Saturday? What does the rest of your time look like? What's a day in the life?

Ingrid Murra [00:31:28] 

 Every day is different, there are always a thousand things going on, and one of the biggest struggles is figuring out what to prioritize. So it really involves saying no to almost everything that's the biggest muscle that I'm trying to flex right now is how do I say no to everything that's not the most important thing on my plate, no to every single meeting, and really say these are the two or three things that I've gotta do right now to drive the business forward. 

Dawn Andrews [00:31:54]

Some people are super curious about the actual flow of someone's day and become overly concerned with, are you an early riser? Do you work late at night? For you, what have you found is your flow? Are you a get-up-early person and cut out reasonably early? Are you working? I get the founder part of it that it never turns off, but when are your primary best times that get your work done? 

Ingrid Murra [00:32:19]

 I try to wake up early. Early for me, is like six 30. do my own thing from six 30 to seven 30. Then I'm online by7:30. I would say between 7:30 and 8:30 is head down, alone time. Then it's just a ton of meetings, internal and external meetings, which I'm trying to eliminate, honestly. Like I generally get pretty tired around 3:00 PM. and my brain is a little bit mushy for like two hours. I still kind of power through emails or something. That's kind of lower-priority work. Then I generally take a break for dinner. I'll take two hours off, and then I'm pretty much back online from 8 pm to like 10:30 pm, and then it lights off. 

Dawn Andrews [00:32:58]

 Yeah, we share a fairly similar schedule. I'm like a five AM to 6:00 AM kind of person. And not because I'm trying to be a fancy 5:00 AM rise. I just, that just seems to be when I wake up and can't seem. Get back to sleep again. So I feel ya and 10 30, if I'm lucky, if I'm lucky, I fall asleep in front of the TV all the time with my kids. It's crazy. 

So tell me a little bit about the fundraising process. and being a woman in that process. You alluded to it a little bit at the top of our conversation, but was there anything that you particularly that you found for yourself being a woman walking into these rooms as opposed to not?

Ingrid Murra [00:33:36]

 I think it's a hard question to answer because I've never done it from the other side. I'm not honestly too sure. I think The biggest thing is I just didn't think about it anything involving my sex or what I looked like. But it's hard. The data shows that it's obviously harder for a woman. I'm sure there was a lot of bias, but I just ignored it until I got to the place where I got someone to commit to saying yes. 

Dawn Andrews [00:34:01]

 So If we put your amazing energy and ability to see an opportunity towards finding funding for more women. Let's brainstorm for a second. Let's just figure it out, okay? You are the 48th Latina woman to receive more than 1 million dollars in venture funding. That's a glorious statistic and an abysmal statistic at the same time. I think it's about 2.9% of all venture funding goes to women. So we got two smart sisters sitting here on this conversation right now. What, from your perspective, can we, as women, do to start shifting those statistics? 

Ingrid Murra [00:34:34]

 I would say literally just getting out there. From what I've seen, the biggest thing is just not thinking that prep work is so important. Because you really can't prepare to run a business unless you've done them before. Yes, you can come up with a go-to-market strategy, and you can come up with your financial predictions, but at the same time, those are gonna change tomorrow, and the day after, with every single learning that you have. And so I would say instead of focusing so much on the prep work, just actually getting out there and knocking on doors. 

Dawn Andrews [00:35:04]

I hope everybody really heard. So here's what you actually just said, Dr. Murra, and here's what I hope people hear. And that is, there is preparation that we do before we go out and make these presentations or go out and introduce ourselves. But when you are an entrepreneur, and you're starting something, it is all made up. Maybe there are some look-alikes, sound-alikes, adjacent competition, or people that have already cracked some part of the industry that you can make comparisons to. But ultimately, every single founder that's going out there, male, female, or otherwise, is making it all up. It's all your best guesses, your best estimations, and your greatest belief in what's possible that has people start their businesses. So I want to encourage any woman that is listening. If you have the kernel of an idea for a business, borrowing Dr. Murrow's shine and courage, just go out there and start sharing it and talking to people, and then continue to fill in the gaps and pivot and iterate. 

Ingrid Murra [00:35:57]

That's exactly right.

Dawn Andrews [00:35:58]

 Tell me what you've noticed, and perhaps in regards to women about confidence. Related to the beauty industry and specifically the space that you're in, which is that center of the screen, the big smiles that everybody has. What have you noticed about how someone's smile can impact their confidence? 

Ingrid Murra [00:36:14]

 I definitely think that, especially as adult confidence comes from within. But it could only help to feel confident that when you smile, you have a smile that is going to look healthy and light up the person with who you're smiling. It's very important to prioritize your oral health. What we do, is the product of delivering beautiful straight teeth. I really see it more now than ever before. It’s the number one most important preventative oral healthcare measure you can take because the average person spends over $40,000 on invasive dental work over the course of their lifetime, which could be saved if you have straight teeth and a healthy bite. 

If you have straight teeth, you can save a lot of periodontal issues. If you have a healthy bite, you can save yourself from cracking teeth by grinding away your teeth. I see it as fundamental to your oral healthcare. So in terms of confidence, it benefits your confidence tremendously. 

Dawn Andrews [00:37:18]

Both of us talked about having braces, and we were both kids when we did it. Are you seeing any sort of trend around, more women taking advantage of orthodontia or doing it later in life, as adults? I don't know what the percentage of people using orthodontic care is in the kids and developing stage versus the adult stage. 

Ingrid Murra  [00:37:37]

 Because of the clear aligner industry, because of the shift from braces to clear aligners like Invisalign. The primary market is now adults. SmileDirectClub treated half a million patients last year. They say this is now a 250 million-dollar industry in the United States.

That's a lot of people who want to straighten their teeth and have beautiful teeth. I know, on average, when we partnered with dental offices, the average patients that we treat are in their thirties, forties, and fifties, and half of them are women. A lot of people within these offices are looking to improve their smiles in their forties, fifties, and beyond. 

Dawn Andrews [00:38:11]  

A little bit of a pivot, let's talk tools. What do you require to make your entrepreneurial life work? Are there apps that you're using? Are there products that you're using? Are there services that you're using? What keeps you standing up and moving forward? 

Ingrid Murra [00:38:25] 

 I have my notes on my iPhone, and that's it. 

Dawn Andrews [00:38:29]

 That's pretty extraordinary. God, The number of apps it takes over here, it's incredible. Love or hate Jeff Bezos; Amazon Prime keeps this whole house running, having things delivered, grocery delivery stuff, delivery, there's a lot that keeps it going, and my Mac. 

Ingrid Murra [00:38:44] 

That's true. Without my Mac, I couldn't do anything.

Dawn Andrews: [00:38:47]

 What's your vision for your company over the next five years?

Ingrid Murra [00:38:51]

 To become a global company that changes the way that people straighten their teeth forever and orthodontists and dentists deliver care. 

Dawn Andrews [00:38:58]

Why is that important to you? 

Ingrid Murra [00:38:59]

Because we're empowering people to live their best lives, and we're empowering providers to be more efficient business owners, which is so hard to run a small business in the capitalist society. 

Dawn Andrews [00:39:12]

 Okay. There's one question that I ask everyone that's a guest on the show what I'd like you to imagine is times square. Being a new Yorker, you know what that feels like. And you get the opportunity to put a message on the biggest sparkliest billboard there to share with women in business, women that are interested in leading, and women that are currently leading. What would be the message that you'd give to women?

Ingrid Murra [00:39:33] 

 To be fearless, to be absolutely fearless. 

Dawn Andrews [00:39:36]

 Tell me more. 

Ingrid Murra [00:39:37] 

 You know, it's all just about taking risks and chances like that's the only way to move forward. So I would say the number one thing that I would want people to take in is just to not live in fear. 

Dawn Andrews [00:39:50] 

 What has been the benefit for you of being fearless? 

Ingrid Murra  [00:39:52]

 The benefit to me just getting to where I am today, which isn't that far to be totally transparent, but I'm proud of what I've accomplished so far. And I think There's a lot more that I hope to accomplish. There are a lot more lives that I hope to change. And the only way I would have gotten here was to just believe in myself, take action, and to be fearless, 

Dawn Andrews [00:40:12]

I love it. Dr. Murra, thank you very much for taking the time to share your story and be with me today. I think there is so much to take away from it for the business owners that listen and for women in general. You're an incredibly inspirational person. And I especially love the dedication that you have to make things better for people through their smiles. What a lovely way to spend your life. 

Ingrid Murra [00:40:38]

 I appreciate that. That means so much. 

Dawn Andrews [00:40:40]

 I look forward to passing on some of those resources to you and especially getting more restaurant recommendations because I love a good meal out. 

Ingrid Murra [00:40:47]

 Absolutely. Absolutely. I will share everything. I'll share with you my favorite lists. 

Dawn Andrews [00:40:53]

 Excellent. I totally appreciate it. Well, I hope to have you back soon. I'd love to check in on your progress and see how things are going with Two Front. Is there anywhere that you would like to send people to learn more about Two Front or specific ways for people to connect with you? 

Ingrid Murra [00:41:08]

 Yes, please. If you could send it to our website, our Instagram, and my personal Instagram for any questions, those are three right there. 

Dawn Andrews [00:41:18]

 Excellent. So @DrIngrid Murra on Instagram and @mytwofront as well on Instagram and mytwofront.com. Thank you so much for your time today. I so appreciate it. 

Ingrid Murra [00:41:29]

 Thank you, this was so nice.

Dawn Andrews  [00:52:01]

Thank you for joining us this week to view the complete show notes and all the links mentioned in today's episode, visit mygoodwoman.com. Before you go, make sure you follow or subscribe to the podcast so you can receive fresh episodes when they drop. And if you're enjoying My Good Woman, leave us a review on Apple Podcasts, reviews are one of the major ways that Apple ranks their podcasts, so even though it only takes a few seconds, it really does make a difference. This episode was produced by me, and Kathlena Shaughnessy. Thank you again for joining me, Dawn Andrews in this episode of My Good Woman.